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Next: FreeBSD6.2 Stable without X
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External
Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 12
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:41 am
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>unix>bsd>freebsd>misc (more info?)
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On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:54:59 +0000, Howard Goldstein wrote:
> I don't think that can happen without some exceptional forcing. When a
> base library version changes the symlinks go with it. Subsequent port
> builds are branded with whatever's pointed to at buildtime by the
> symlink.
(a) the symlink upgrade doesn't protect you from -pthread switch bringing
in libpth.so where it used to (on 6.x) bring in libpthread.so: different
name.
(b) in practice, it seems that libraries know the specific version that
they've been linked against. I don't understand the details, but I've
ldd'd many an app and seen multiple versions of libz.so.? and libc.so.?
Things are stable and (mostly) lovely, now that I've manually nuked or
upgraded every library and application that had been built under 6-stable.
Summary: yes, you can upgrade 6-stable to 7-stable in-place, using the
instructions in UPDATING. You have to blow away or forceably upgrade
everything else, though, even though it'll all appear to work fine in
compatability mode.
Cheers,
--
Andrew |
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External
Since: Sep 05, 2003
Posts: 76
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:45 am
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Howard Goldstein wrote:
> : Now you are open after upgrades to the fact that A links two different
> : versions of the same D, which leads to sure crash. I think this is
> : precisely what occurred to people with upgrades of the threading
> : libraries and partial upgrade of ports.
>
> Do you have an example of this actually occurring or is it more a
> suspicion?
As i said just above, many people have complained on freebsd mailing
lists precisely about this problem. It is not imaginary. This for
example about the QT port. It contains the qt-mt library which is linked
to many libraries:
niobe% ldd /usr/X11R6/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.6
/usr/X11R6/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.6:
libaudio.so.2 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libaudio.so.2 (0x28807000)
libXt.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 (0x2881a000)
libmng.so.1 => /usr/local/lib/libmng.so.1 (0x28865000)
libjpeg.so.9 => /usr/local/lib/libjpeg.so.9 (0x288bb000)
libpng.so.5 => /usr/local/lib/libpng.so.5 (0x288d9000)
libz.so.3 => /lib/libz.so.3 (0x288fb000)
.....
In turn it is linked by the whole KDE stuff. So the potential to have
several different copies of the above after a partial upgrade is big.
--
Michel TALON |
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:37 pm
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Sep 05, 2003
Posts: 76
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Howard Goldstein wrote:
>
> Your ldd dump shows my point exactly, and it should be reassuring to
> those who are concerned about having old libraries around: The app and
> lib images know which versions of other libraries they need. Their
> mere presence is not problematic in and of itself.
>
No it doesn't show your point. It shows that the same binary can turn
out linked with two different *versions* of the *same* library. This
happened to several people who have reported it on the mailing lists.
In this case, when you call functions in this library, how do you know
what bit of code will be executed? If you call pthread_mutex_init(), how
do you know it will refer to one or the other? And maybe the two
libraries need different initializations, hence a crash.
Your problem is that you are contesting the reality of situations which
have been clearly described in the mailing lists by library and
threading experts, notably D. Eischen, recently.
>
--
Michel TALON >> Stay informed about: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? |
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:03 pm
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Sep 05, 2003
Posts: 76
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:54 pm
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Howard Goldstein wrote:
>
> I think I figured out what's going on here in this really twisted
> continuation of the thread. Let me see if I'm right. If you rebuilt
> every port on the system but had the old libraries sitting around,
> would the situation you describe in the quoted bits above occur?
>
I don't think so. In the article by D. Eischen i have read recently, he
said to rebuild everything to avoid this effect. I don't think that
having old libraries in "compat" causes problems (of course old headers
may cause problems when you compile). The problem, according to what i
have read comes with the complicated setup i have explained, with
several chains of dependencies closing to a single library. If one of
the chains is upgraded through a partial upgrading, you will get two
copies of a library which should be included once. This has nothing to
do with symlinks or other trivial stuff.
>
--
Michel TALON >> Stay informed about: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? |
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Sep 05, 2003
Posts: 76
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 12
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 13:37:46 +0000, Howard Goldstein wrote:
> On 9 Dec 2007 07:41:30 GMT, Andrew Reilly
> wrote:
> : On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:54:59 +0000, Howard Goldstein wrote: :
> : > I don't think that can happen without some exceptional forcing.
> When a : > base library version changes the symlinks go with it.
> Subsequent port : > builds are branded with whatever's pointed to at
> buildtime by the : > symlink.
> :
> : (a) the symlink upgrade doesn't protect you from -pthread switch
> bringing : in libpth.so where it used to (on 6.x) bring in
> libpthread.so: different : name.
>
> Did you make delete-old-libs?
I did, eventually, as a way to make all of the doubly-linked applications
break on startup, and produce obvious error messages when ldd was pointed
at them. Initially, no, all of the old libraries were still there, and
many applications would break inscrutably, or dump core.
It's not all that surprising an event. GNOME stuff has shared library
dependency chains ten or more deep, some of which are quite stable, and
so unlikely to be rebuilt by portupgrade unless -af is used. From
memory, one of the main culprits was the GNOME bonobo server (which
hand't been upgraded until I did it manually.) The big gotcha, and
seemingly a flaw in the system, is that portupgrade doesn't track things
like the system C complier linking in a different library when given the -
pthread switch.
Cheers,
--
Andrew >> Stay informed about: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? |
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External
Since: Sep 05, 2003
Posts: 76
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:12 am
Post subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Andrew Reilly wrote:
> hand't been upgraded until I did it manually.) The big gotcha, and
> seemingly a flaw in the system, is that portupgrade doesn't track things
> like the system C complier linking in a different library when given the -
> pthread switch.
Portupgrade cannot track such stuff. The only knowledge it has about
ports, is their version numbers, and the dependencies explicitely (or
implicitely through system make files) mentioned in the Makefile.
In particular it has zero knowledge of things moving in the base system.
This is not really a bug of portupgrade, it depends entirely on the
organization of FreeBSD base and ports system.
>
> Cheers,
>
--
Michel TALON >> Stay informed about: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 - Is it stable for home user? |
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