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james <at> hal-pc.org

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Since: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 16



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:19 am
Post subject: mail server suggestions...
Archived from groups: comp>unix>bsd>freebsd>misc (more info?)

I'm looking for some suggestions before diving into my first mail
server. This will be for 5 users tops and I'm not looking to make
administration of it a full time job.
Xmail seems to be a good start for me, because from what I've been
reading, using sendmail/postfix + qpopper + fetchmail seems a little
daunting to maintain and secure. Webmail isn't all that important, but
it would be a nice bonus (squirrel mail maybe?). This is simply a
learning experience so doing things the "UN*X way" may be more
beneficial from an employment standpoint and I may end up going the
later route. The most important thing though is security. I'm looking
for any pitfalls or other gotchas that lead to an open mail relay or
other security nightmare. The system it'll be running on is 5.5 on an
AlphaPC 533 w/512MB RAM. This is also my webserver.
Any suggestions/advice?

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jpd

External


Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 60



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Begin
On 2006-10-16, "james <at> hal-pc.org" <"james <at> hal-pc.org"> wrote:
> I'm looking for some suggestions before diving into my first mail
> server. This will be for 5 users tops and I'm not looking to make
> administration of it a full time job.

The problem there is that MUAs, MTAs, and so on are prone to attract
holy wars. In the following you'll be reading my opinion. I think you'll
have to invest a bit more effort than may seem warranted for just five
users. See it as a learning experience. Smile


> Xmail seems to be a good start for me, because from what I've been
> reading, using sendmail/postfix + qpopper + fetchmail seems a little
> daunting to maintain and secure.

The xmail I found in my local ports collection was a GUI type MUA.
You're probably thinking of something else, so I won't comment.

While sendmail will be more than capable to do the job, it is also
something I don't care to roll configurations for, even with the m4
preprocessor. I liked exim a lot, altough ``the specification''
(==the docs) takes some getting used to. The book is worth it.
I haven't used postfix but I hear it's quite acceptable.

Fetchmail is fairly straight forward if you understand what it does,
altough getting it exactly right for your situation can be tricky. Once
gotten right you only really need to touch its configuration whenever
your service provider changes things. I'm not aware of much other tools
that do what it does.

qpopper appears to be a pop3 server, which I'd think is a missed chance
at introducing IMAP. Others here (see dejagoogle) think dovecot is the
bees knees. I haven't used it. I've used courier imap and that worked
pretty well, altough the maintenance interface didn't scale too well.
But then, my userbase was a bit bigger.


> Webmail isn't all that important, but it would be a nice bonus
> (squirrel mail maybe?).

That works, altough you might need to put an upper limit on its use of
resources and that can cause weird failure modes if the imap box it
talks to is too big. Think several thousand mails in a single folder. It
is good practice to not let folders get too big anyway, that's what imap
has subfolders for. Oh, and it uses php4, so that in itself is a bit of
a liability. It can be dealt with reasonably adequately, though.


> This is simply a learning experience so doing things the "UN*X way"
> may be more beneficial from an employment standpoint and I may end up
> going the later route.

I think that if you want to understand the parts you'd do well to
try and integrate the different components that each do their thing.
Also because you can upgrade the individual parts if they happen to
sport vulnerabilities. All in one solutions are nice for ``turn key''
appliances sold at a nice markup, but don't help you understand it all
much. Especially if you're going to end up filtering spam and malware an
appliance won't be powerful enough.


> The most important thing though is security. I'm looking for any
> pitfalls or other gotchas that lead to an open mail relay or other
> security nightmare.

Well, there are several protocols involved each with its own pitfalls.
Most MTAs come with relaying disabled by default nowadays. I heard that
le plus ultra of integration, that thing from redmond, didn't.


--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

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james <at> hal-pc.org

External


Since: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 16



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

jpd wrote:
> The problem there is that MUAs, MTAs, and so on are prone to attract
> holy wars. In the following you'll be reading my opinion. I think you'll
> have to invest a bit more effort than may seem warranted for just five
> users. See it as a learning experience. Smile

That's exactly what I'm looking for. suggestions, opinions, warnings,
and comments welcome.

> The xmail I found in my local ports collection was a GUI type MUA.
> You're probably thinking of something else, so I won't comment.

http://www.xmailserver.org/
I'd hope you'd know me better than that by now Wink
It seems to be a Communigate type mail server solution.

> qpopper appears to be a pop3 server, which I'd think is a missed chance
> at introducing IMAP. Others here (see dejagoogle) think dovecot is the
> bees knees. I haven't used it. I've used courier imap and that worked
> pretty well, altough the maintenance interface didn't scale too well.
> But then, my userbase was a bit bigger.

Some friends of mine use courier and give it high praises. I didn't
realize how many people still use imap. I'll still need POP simply
because of my one M$ device (A Toshiba E740 PDA w/ Windoze Pocket).

>> Webmail isn't all that important, but it would be a nice bonus
>> (squirrel mail maybe?).
>
> That works, altough you might need to put an upper limit on its use of
> resources and that can cause weird failure modes if the imap box it
> talks to is too big. Think several thousand mails in a single folder. It
> is good practice to not let folders get too big anyway, that's what imap
> has subfolders for. Oh, and it uses php4, so that in itself is a bit of
> a liability. It can be dealt with reasonably adequately, though.

thanks for the warning. I'd really only use the webmail if I was
somewhere w/o one of my computers. I keep my mail client (Mozilla) set
to delete after 30 days so the box never gets too big and I can keep
things in sync between machines.

>> This is simply a learning experience so doing things the "UN*X way"
>> may be more beneficial from an employment standpoint and I may end up
>> going the later route.
>
> I think that if you want to understand the parts you'd do well to
> try and integrate the different components that each do their thing.
> Also because you can upgrade the individual parts if they happen to
> sport vulnerabilities.

Good point. plus I suppose I could integrate spamassassin later.

>> The most important thing though is security. I'm looking for any
>> pitfalls or other gotchas that lead to an open mail relay or other
>> security nightmare.
>
> Well, there are several protocols involved each with its own pitfalls.
> Most MTAs come with relaying disabled by default nowadays. I heard that
> le plus ultra of integration, that thing from redmond, didn't.

That's a relief. Thanks again for the insight
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jpd

External


Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 60



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:52 am
Post subject: Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Begin
On 2006-10-18, "james <at> hal-pc.org" <"james <at> hal-pc.org"> wrote:
> Some friends of mine use courier and give it high praises. I didn't
> realize how many people still use imap.

What do you mean, still? It allows for much more flexibility than POP3,
and it is also the protocol squirrelmail uses to get to the mail.


> I'll still need POP simply because of my one M$ device (A Toshiba
> E740 PDA w/ Windoze Pocket).

You can have courier support both at the same time.


--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.
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james <at> hal-pc.org

External


Since: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 16



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:18 am
Post subject: auth type? Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> I'm looking for some suggestions before diving into my first mail
> server. This will be for 5 users tops and I'm not looking to make
> administration of it a full time job.

What about authentication suggestions?
I'd rather not use user accounts in the passwd file and I think an
SQL route would be a little overkill for 5 or so users... LDAP maybe?
In reading up on it I see that that may even be over the top since it
would just be used to authenticate off of. Certainly a lot more effort
than setting up SQL as I already have MySQL installed for my web site.
Something like the standard passwd file, yet detached from system
authentication?
Pointers and opinions welcome.

--
- - james <at> hal-pc.org - -
A deaf ear is the first symptom of a closed mind.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Giorgos Keramidas

External


Since: Dec 20, 2003
Posts: 16



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Post subject: Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:05:38 -0500, "james <at> hal-pc.org" wrote:
> jpd wrote:
>>> This is simply a learning experience so doing things the "UN*X way"
>>> may be more beneficial from an employment standpoint and I may end up
>>> going the later route.
>>
>> I think that if you want to understand the parts you'd do well to
>> try and integrate the different components that each do their thing.
>> Also because you can upgrade the individual parts if they happen to
>> sport vulnerabilities.
>
> Good point. plus I suppose I could integrate spamassassin later.

Yep.

This is the good part of solutions which are assembled by various
smaller parts, rather than being huge, monolithic, "all in a
black box" solutions.

You can add more parts, as the need for them arises Smile
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jpd

External


Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 60



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: auth type? Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Begin
On 2006-10-19, "james <at> hal-pc.org" <"james <at> hal-pc.org"> wrote:
> What about authentication suggestions?
> I'd rather not use user accounts in the passwd file and I think an
> SQL route would be a little overkill for 5 or so users... LDAP maybe?

LDAP isn't exactly lightweight. It's also a right pain to setup, much
more than one of the open/free RDBMSen, even if you have to work out a
schema. You could take a look at cyrus-sasl.


--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.
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Thomas_Köllmann

External


Since: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 2



(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: auth type? Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"james <at> hal-pc.org" writes:

>> I'm looking for some suggestions before diving into my first mail
>> server. This will be for 5 users tops and I'm not looking to make
>> administration of it a full time job.
>
> What about authentication suggestions?
> I'd rather not use user accounts in the passwd file and I think an
> SQL route would be a little overkill for 5 or so users... LDAP maybe?

LDAP authorization for system/shell users (with nss-ldap and
pam-ldap), mail users (Postfix and Dovecot and others support that),
ftp users (PureFTD) and Samba users works very well on FreeBSD (6.1).

But to set all that up for just 5 users is indeed overkill -- although
the only real difficulty is the structure of the directory itself,
especially if you want it managable with tools like LDAP Admin so the
average Windows admin can use the whole thing.

Mit schönem Gruß
- Thomas


--
Every one suspects himself of at least one of the cardinal virtues, and
this is mine: I am one of the few honest people that I have ever known.
- F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby
/* PGP key auf Wunsch per e-mail || PGP key sent on request */
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Matthew X. Economou

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Since: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 32



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

>>>>> "jpd" == jpd writes:

jpd> Most MTAs come with relaying disabled by default nowadays. I
jpd> heard that le plus ultra of integration, that thing from
jpd> redmond, didn't.

By default, Exchange Server 2003 only relays mail for authenticated
users:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/guides/E2k3Trans...uting/2

As far as I know, this was not the default in Exchange until Service
Pack 2 for Exchange 2000 Server. (Fortunately for me, I'm not
familiar with Exchange versions older than that.)

Best wishes,
Matthew

--
Every time Bruce Schneier smiles, an amateur cryptographer dies.
(http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/55)
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Bill Vermillion

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Since: Sep 11, 2004
Posts: 32



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: auth type? Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article , james <at> wrote:
>> I'm looking for some suggestions before diving into my first mail
>> server. This will be for 5 users tops and I'm not looking to make
>> administration of it a full time job.
>
>What about authentication suggestions?
> I'd rather not use user accounts in the passwd file and I think an
>SQL route would be a little overkill for 5 or so users... LDAP maybe?
>In reading up on it I see that that may even be over the top since it
>would just be used to authenticate off of. Certainly a lot more effort
>than setting up SQL as I already have MySQL installed for my web site.
>Something like the standard passwd file, yet detached from system
>authentication?
> Pointers and opinions welcome.

Why don't you want to put users in the password file since you
only have FIVE accounts?

Bill

--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
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james <at> hal-pc.org

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Since: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 16



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:05 pm
Post subject: Re: auth type? Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Bill Vermillion wrote:
> Why don't you want to put users in the password file since you
> only have FIVE accounts?

learning experience, and I don't feel very comfortable having valid
users on the system that are known to the world.
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Walter Vaughan

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Since: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 2



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:44 pm
Post subject: Re: auth type? Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"james <at> hal-pc.org" wrote:

> Bill Vermillion wrote:
>
>> Why don't you want to put users in the password file since you
>> only have FIVE accounts?
>
>
> learning experience, and I don't feel very comfortable having valid
> users on the system that are known to the world.

I missed the beginning of this thread, but I am hoping that *someone* suggested
Matt Simmerson's excellent FreeBSD Toaster. Might be overkill, but will work
splendidly for 5 or 5000 users ( can't remember honestly, there may be sites
with 50,000 to 500,000 users ) and should take all of an hour or two to install.

http://mail-toaster.org/

Your five users will be most happy and so will you.

--
Walter
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jpd

External


Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 60



(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:45 am
Post subject: Re: auth type? Re: mail server suggestions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Begin
On 2006-10-22, Bill Vermillion wrote:
> Why don't you want to put users in the password file since you
> only have FIVE accounts?

There is something to be said for a separate mail account if you don't
want those five accounts to also have shell access, as that'd save
locking passwd entries down. A simple passwd-like file would do though,
no need for ldap or sql databases or whatnot.


--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.
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