No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha..

see http://BlogRallTRUE!.corn

refute that!


"SODDI" wrote in message

>
> "Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
>
>> "SODDI" writes:
>>
>>> "1PW" wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On 12/29/2008 01:35 AM, tad sent:
>>>>> On Dec 28, 9:18 pm, 1PW wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This started about three weeks ago. The teacher is from an Austin,
>>>>>> Texas USA school. It's interesting if you follow what has occurred
>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry I'm lazy. Do you have a link?
>>>>
>>>> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html>
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about an actual news story? Not a FOAF story from a blog.
>>
>> That's not a FOAF story, that's the original source.
>
> It's a blogger relating an alleged letter he got from this teacher,
> "Karen" so it rings anecdotal to me.
>
> It's not like I would suspect some blogger would ever in a million years
> make something up to make a point, but hard news it isn't.
>
>> Also good to read the followup:
>>
>> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-assasinations-aint-us.html
>
> blog.
>
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

On 12/30/2008 10:03 AM, SODDI sent:
> "1PW" wrote in message
>
>> On 12/29/2008 01:35 AM, tad sent:
>>> On Dec 28, 9:18 pm, 1PW wrote:
>>>
>>>> This started about three weeks ago. The teacher is from an Austin,
>>>> Texas USA school. It's interesting if you follow what has occurred
>>>> since.
>>>>
>>> Sorry I'm lazy. Do you have a link?
>> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html>
>>
>
> How about an actual news story? Not a FOAF story from a blog.
>
>

Hello SODDI

I originally picked up in a blurb at <http://linux.slashdot.org/>.
However, that was a few weeks back and I'm afraid the story has probably
slipped into their achieves by now:

<http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/001236>

I /do/ share your need to find the original source, however, most
everything I've see so far seems to quote the same news story with its
misspellings. At first I was mildly suspicious that the story was
invented to gain favor for Linux. However some truths seem visible
through it all. What do you think about all this?

Pete
--
1PW @?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t]
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

"1PW" wrote:

> Hello SODDI
>
> I originally picked up in a blurb at <http://linux.slashdot.org/>.
> However, that was a few weeks back and I'm afraid the story has probably
> slipped into their achieves by now:
>
> <http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/001236>
>
> I /do/ share your need to find the original source, however, most
> everything I've see so far seems to quote the same news story with its
> misspellings. At first I was mildly suspicious that the story was
> invented to gain favor for Linux. However some truths seem visible
> through it all. What do you think about all this?

It was just when I read the original blog posting I wanted to see it backed
up by a news item.

It seems to argue the point so neatly and tidily... that makes me want to
look twice.

What do I know.
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

"SODDI" writes:


>"1PW" wrote:

>> Hello SODDI
>>
>> I originally picked up in a blurb at <http://linux.slashdot.org/>.
>> However, that was a few weeks back and I'm afraid the story has probably
>> slipped into their achieves by now:
>>
>> <http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/001236>
>>
>> I /do/ share your need to find the original source, however, most
>> everything I've see so far seems to quote the same news story with its
>> misspellings. At first I was mildly suspicious that the story was
>> invented to gain favor for Linux. However some truths seem visible
>> through it all. What do you think about all this?

>It was just when I read the original blog posting I wanted to see it backed
>up by a news item.

What would a news story give you? And in the followup the teacher realised
that she was wrong, and was sorry and learned how Linux really worked. It
was also true that student was in class at the time, and the situation was
disruptive.



>It seems to argue the point so neatly and tidily... that makes me want to
>look twice.

>What do I know.
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:54:38 UTC, "SODDI" wrote:

> > I /do/ share your need to find the original source, however, most
> > everything I've see so far seems to quote the same news story with its
> > misspellings. At first I was mildly suspicious that the story was
> > invented to gain favor for Linux. However some truths seem visible
> > through it all. What do you think about all this?
>
> It was just when I read the original blog posting I wanted to see it backed
> up by a news item.

I heard about this the day after it happened. Look here:


http://austinist.com/2008/12/10/aisd_teacher_throws_fit_over_studen.php
--
Bob Eager
UNIX since v6..
http://tinyurl.com/2xqr6h
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:23:09 -0500, Matt Giwer wrote:
>> 1PW wrote:
>>> On 12/28/2008 05:47 PM, Penang sent:
>>>> This morning I saw something rather troubling, a one liner on a forum,
>>>> so I clicked the link, ended up at a blog at
>>>> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
>>> This started about three weeks ago. The teacher is from an Austin,
>>> Texas USA school. It's interesting if you follow what has occurred
>>> since.
>> You get what you pay for when you let teachers unionize. You can't
>> fire the incompetents or the idiots.
>
> Nobody is an idiot because they don't know what Linux is. If that were
> true, then many Linux people would also be considered idiots because
> they don't know anything about plumbing or battle aircraft construction.

He said nothing about linux. He spoke in favor of MicroShit. That is what
makes him an idiot. He lied, presumably unknowingly, but as I am not a Jesuit
I will not debate the meaning of lie. He spread false information AND, repeat
and, STOLE as in misdemeanor theft, disks multiple times. Those are all crimes.

Last time I heard ignorance is no excuse and this teacher is a criminal as
well as a liar.

So let us not play games with word meanings.

His only legal recourse is to correct his statement and return the disks and
to keep his ignorant, idiot mouth shut on the subject now and in the future
until he learns what he is talking about.

--
If abortion is murder the woman should receive
the death penalty.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4074
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/holo-survivors.phtml a3
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

David Brown wrote:
> Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:23:09 -0500, Matt Giwer
>> wrote:
>>> 1PW wrote:
>>>> On 12/28/2008 05:47 PM, Penang sent:
>>>>> This morning I saw something rather troubling, a one liner on a forum,
>>>>> so I clicked the link, ended up at a blog at
>>>>> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
>>>>>
>>>> This started about three weeks ago. The teacher is from an Austin,
>>>> Texas USA school. It's interesting if you follow what has occurred
>>>> since.
>>> You get what you pay for when you let teachers unionize. You can't
>>> fire the incompetents or the idiots.
>> Nobody is an idiot because they don't know what Linux is. If that were
>> true, then many Linux people would also be considered idiots because
>> they don't know anything about plumbing or battle aircraft construction.

> People often mistake ignorance for stupidity - the teacher was ignorant
> about Linux, as are many people, and that is easily cured.

> However, her apparent (based on what I've read on the net) knee-jerk
> hysterical reaction to the kid demonstrating Linux is not idiocy, nor
> ignorance - but it is *not* the sort of attitude one wants or expects
> from a teacher. As far as I have read, it never occurred to her to
> actually *talk* to the kid, or ask him what he was doing. It certainly
> never occurred to her to learn a little about the subject at hand before
> firing off emails threatening legal action.

>> So let's cut down a bit on that name-calling shall we?

> I agree on that - lets try to identify the problems, not just find
> someone to blame.

And if I am a teacher and from my experience with linux I describe Windows as
a rip-off, which it is, am I liable to civil suit from MS?

A teacher of a subject is presumed to know the subject. There is are no
excuses permitted when the teacher acts as an agent of to school system which
she did. If she wishes to publicly proclaim ignorance of the subject she
teaches fine with me. That is not in the report.

These are not the school marms of my day. These are unionized, over paid,
under performing whatevers.

Clearly this person is unqualified to teach the subject. Fine with me. Admit
it and move on.

However, to assert NO SOFTWARE IS FREE is such a blatant example of
ignorance, incompetence and ignorance that I exhaust my vocabulary of
adjectives to further describe it. To threaten legal action in writing goes
far beyond a mistake in the classroom which is expected.

I started writing very free software nearly 30 years ago. I was not alone. 16
of them were published by COMPUTE! magazine for the Atari 800. I went through
the 80s on free software that worked on MS-DOS X.x. And that should bring the
majority of the readers here to the 1990s and that free software.

To falsely teach children there is no free software does nothing less than
make a laughing stock of this teacher and, if I remember my time in the school
system correctly, make a laughing stock of the entire educational system.

--
The truth is biased against Israel.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4086
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/holo-survivors.phtml a3
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

Matt Giwer wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
>> Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:23:09 -0500, Matt Giwer
>>> wrote:
>>>> 1PW wrote:
>>>>> On 12/28/2008 05:47 PM, Penang sent:
>>>>>> This morning I saw something rather troubling, a one liner on a
>>>>>> forum,
>>>>>> so I clicked the link, ended up at a blog at
>>>>>> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
>>>>>>
>>>>> This started about three weeks ago. The teacher is from an Austin,
>>>>> Texas USA school. It's interesting if you follow what has occurred
>>>>> since.
>>>> You get what you pay for when you let teachers unionize. You can't
>>>> fire the incompetents or the idiots.
>>> Nobody is an idiot because they don't know what Linux is. If that were
>>> true, then many Linux people would also be considered idiots because
>>> they don't know anything about plumbing or battle aircraft construction.
>
>> People often mistake ignorance for stupidity - the teacher was
>> ignorant about Linux, as are many people, and that is easily cured.
>
>> However, her apparent (based on what I've read on the net) knee-jerk
>> hysterical reaction to the kid demonstrating Linux is not idiocy, nor
>> ignorance - but it is *not* the sort of attitude one wants or expects
>> from a teacher. As far as I have read, it never occurred to her to
>> actually *talk* to the kid, or ask him what he was doing. It
>> certainly never occurred to her to learn a little about the subject at
>> hand before firing off emails threatening legal action.
>
>>> So let's cut down a bit on that name-calling shall we?
>
>> I agree on that - lets try to identify the problems, not just find
>> someone to blame.
>
> And if I am a teacher and from my experience with linux I describe
> Windows as a rip-off, which it is, am I liable to civil suit from MS?
>
> A teacher of a subject is presumed to know the subject. There is are
> no excuses permitted when the teacher acts as an agent of to school
> system which she did. If she wishes to publicly proclaim ignorance of
> the subject she teaches fine with me. That is not in the report.
>

Was the teacher in question a computer science teacher, or some similar
subject? From what I read, I have not noticed anything saying the
subject taught by the teacher - ignorance of operating systems or free
software is reasonable in a history teacher, but not in a computing teacher.

> These are not the school marms of my day. These are unionized, over
> paid, under performing whatevers.
>
> Clearly this person is unqualified to teach the subject. Fine with
> me. Admit it and move on.
>

If knowledge about software and operating systems is relevant to the
subject(s) taught by the teacher, then I obviously agree here.

> However, to assert NO SOFTWARE IS FREE is such a blatant example of
> ignorance, incompetence and ignorance that I exhaust my vocabulary of
> adjectives to further describe it. To threaten legal action in writing
> goes far beyond a mistake in the classroom which is expected.
>

That's pretty much what I said - her hysterical reaction and threatening
of legal action is totally inappropriate, and not just ignorance.

> I started writing very free software nearly 30 years ago. I was not
> alone. 16 of them were published by COMPUTE! magazine for the Atari 800.
> I went through the 80s on free software that worked on MS-DOS X.x. And
> that should bring the majority of the readers here to the 1990s and that
> free software.
>
> To falsely teach children there is no free software does nothing
> less than make a laughing stock of this teacher and, if I remember my
> time in the school system correctly, make a laughing stock of the entire
> educational system.
>
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

Matt Giwer writes:

>Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:23:09 -0500, Matt Giwer wrote:
>>> 1PW wrote:
>>>> On 12/28/2008 05:47 PM, Penang sent:
>>>>> This morning I saw something rather troubling, a one liner on a forum,
>>>>> so I clicked the link, ended up at a blog at
>>>>> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
>>>> This started about three weeks ago. The teacher is from an Austin,
>>>> Texas USA school. It's interesting if you follow what has occurred
>>>> since.
>>> You get what you pay for when you let teachers unionize. You can't
>>> fire the incompetents or the idiots.
>>
>> Nobody is an idiot because they don't know what Linux is. If that were
>> true, then many Linux people would also be considered idiots because
>> they don't know anything about plumbing or battle aircraft construction.

> He said nothing about linux. He spoke in favor of MicroShit. That is what
>makes him an idiot. He lied, presumably unknowingly, but as I am not a Jesuit

To lie requires intent. You cannot lie unknowingly.
And apparently you recognize that as well, which is why you are trying to
stop people from point out that it is you that are lying, since you are
mistating the case on purpose and with malicious intent.

>I will not debate the meaning of lie. He spread false information AND, repeat
>and, STOLE as in misdemeanor theft, disks multiple times. Those are all crimes.

There was no evicence whatsoever that he STOLE. A teacher has the right to
temporarily confiscate objects from students, especially from students
causing a disruption with them.


> Last time I heard ignorance is no excuse and this teacher is a criminal as
>well as a liar.

Ignorance OF THE LAW is no legal excuse, is the phrase. Ignorance is often
an excuse and a valid one.

And you are a slanderer and a liar.


> So let us not play games with word meanings.


> His only legal recourse is to correct his statement and return the disks and
>to keep his ignorant, idiot mouth shut on the subject now and in the future
>until he learns what he is talking about.

Physician, heal thyself.
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

David Brown writes:

>That's pretty much what I said - her hysterical reaction and threatening
>of legal action is totally inappropriate, and not just ignorance.

She saw the student as handing out copyright protected software to
students. As such, in her ignorance of licenses like the GPL, she saw this
as an example of copyright violation and of encouragement of such. Given
the mass hysteria of people like RIAA re copyright and given that obeying
the law IS one of the lessons the school should be teaching, she saw the
encouragement of such copyright violation as being an actionable offense,
which it would have been, were it not for the license. That she was
unfamiliar with say the GPL (Have you actually read the license?) IS
ignorance. That she was upset with someone encouraging violation of the law
to her pupils, as she saw it, was exactly what it should be.

Had she seen the student handing out free crack samples and being told that
someone had encouraged him to do so, would she have been overreacting?

>> I started writing very free software nearly 30 years ago. I was not
>> alone. 16 of them were published by COMPUTE! magazine for the Atari 800.
>> I went through the 80s on free software that worked on MS-DOS X.x. And
>> that should bring the majority of the readers here to the 1990s and that
>> free software.
>>
>> To falsely teach children there is no free software does nothing
>> less than make a laughing stock of this teacher and, if I remember my
>> time in the school system correctly, make a laughing stock of the entire
>> educational system.
>>

Just as you make a laughing stock of the whole "free software" movement?
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

Unruh wrote:
> David Brown writes:
>
>> That's pretty much what I said - her hysterical reaction and threatening
>> of legal action is totally inappropriate, and not just ignorance.
>
> She saw the student as handing out copyright protected software to
> students. As such, in her ignorance of licenses like the GPL, she saw this
> as an example of copyright violation and of encouragement of such. Given
> the mass hysteria of people like RIAA re copyright and given that obeying
> the law IS one of the lessons the school should be teaching, she saw the
> encouragement of such copyright violation as being an actionable offense,
> which it would have been, were it not for the license. That she was
> unfamiliar with say the GPL (Have you actually read the license?) IS
> ignorance. That she was upset with someone encouraging violation of the law
> to her pupils, as she saw it, was exactly what it should be.
>
> Had she seen the student handing out free crack samples and being told that
> someone had encouraged him to do so, would she have been overreacting?
>

She would have known that narcotics are illegal, and thus be reacting
according to her knowledge. She did not know anything about Linux or
the software in question - thus a heavy-handed reaction to the kid in
question, followed by threats of legal action against a third party, are
not appropriate reactions for *anyone*. In particular, someone with a
"shoot first, ask questions later" attitude has no business being
involved in teaching.

As I say, ignorance is understandable and excusable (assuming it is not
part of the subjects she teaches) - hysterical reaction in ignorance is
not excusable.
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 05:04:06 -0500, Matt Giwer wrote:
>Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> Nobody is an idiot because they don't know what Linux is. If that were
>> true, then many Linux people would also be considered idiots because
>> they don't know anything about plumbing or battle aircraft construction.
>
> [ Referring to: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html ]
>
> He said nothing about linux. He spoke in favor of MicroShit. That is
> what makes him an idiot. He lied, presumably unknowingly, but as I am
> not a Jesuit I will not debate the meaning of lie. He spread false
> information AND, repeat and, STOLE as in misdemeanor theft, disks
> multiple times. Those are all crimes.

'He' is a 'she'. Please read the blog post next time.
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha.. 

In comp.os.linux.networking David Brown wrote:
> Unruh wrote:
>> David Brown writes:
>>
>>> That's pretty much what I said - her hysterical reaction and threatening
>>> of legal action is totally inappropriate, and not just ignorance.
>>
>> She saw the student as handing out copyright protected software to
>> students. As such, in her ignorance of licenses like the GPL, she saw this
>> as an example of copyright violation and of encouragement of such. Given
>> the mass hysteria of people like RIAA re copyright and given that obeying
>> the law IS one of the lessons the school should be teaching, she saw the
>> encouragement of such copyright violation as being an actionable offense,
>> which it would have been, were it not for the license. That she was
>> unfamiliar with say the GPL (Have you actually read the license?) IS
>> ignorance. That she was upset with someone encouraging violation of the law
>> to her pupils, as she saw it, was exactly what it should be.
>>
>> Had she seen the student handing out free crack samples and being told that
>> someone had encouraged him to do so, would she have been overreacting?
>>
>
> She would have known that narcotics are illegal, and thus be reacting
> according to her knowledge. She did not know anything about Linux or
> the software in question - thus a heavy-handed reaction to the kid in
> question, followed by threats of legal action against a third party, are
> not appropriate reactions for *anyone*. In particular, someone with a
> "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude has no business being
> involved in teaching.

Haven't been keeping up with modern "education" have you? They suspend
& expel kids now for things like wearing a fireman's costume on
Halloween with a toy plastic fire axe, or bringing a table knife to
school to use with your lunch. Not to mention the "sexual harrassment"
by 6 year olds. The modern educational establishment is run by people
with zero common sense and a whole lot of political correctness.

Jerry

>
> As I say, ignorance is understandable and excusable (assuming it is not
> part of the subjects she teaches) - hysterical reaction in ignorance is
> not excusable.
 >> Stay informed about: No software is free and spreading that misconception is ha..